Quirky HR
Quirky HR
Ep 66 | Ding Ding Ding : It's Round 2 of Dana in the Boss Consulting HR Hot Seat
Join us again for a conversation between your favorite Quirky host Dana Dowdell goes another round of questioning with employee Brandon Chance of Boss Consulting HR. In this episode Brandon asks Dana some thought provoking questions reflecting on her career in Human Resources as well as other topics. They touch on how to maintain control of professional conversations with employees who want to drive the narrative, having the brain of a goldfish, and how HR is portrayed in pop culture.
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Dana Dowdell - Boss Consulting - @bossconsultinghr - @hrfanatic
This episode is brought to you by Quirky HR Coaching. If you've been working in human resources and are feeling burned out and have always wanted to start your own consulting company, then this coaching program is for you. With Quirky HR Coaching, we'll meet one-on-one over a series of sessions to craft your consulting company exactly how you would like it, and we'll cover all of the important details contracting, pricing, how to engage in customers, how to deliver your services, who you want to meet with, how to fire a customer all of the things that come up when you own your own business. So if you're interested in signing up for Quirky HR Coaching, head on over to boss consulting HR and click on the Quirky HR tab and sign up for a one-on-one so we can chat more and find out if Quirky HR Coaching is meant for you.
Dana Dowdell:Hello, Welcome back to another episode of Quirky HR. Thank you so much for tuning in. So back in episode 49, which we put up, I think, in April of this year so what feels like quite a long time ago we did an episode where I was in the hot seat and you guys loved it, and so we're going to do another one. So I have Brandon back with me. He is a consultant on my team and he handles all things podcast and he is going to put my ass in the hot seat. So welcome back to Quirky HR.
Brandon Chance:It's great to be back. So here we go again and we'll say last time I'm going to admit I felt a little in the hot seat as I was still pretty new to Boss Consulting HR and the Quirky HR experience. But I'm ready for it this time. that being said said let's do it.
Dana Dowdell:I don't know that I'm ready for it. So Brandon has not shared any of these questions with me, so we are shooting from the hip with the answers. But I'm excited, so you can take it away, Brandon.
Brandon Chance:All right. So I'm sure your longtime listeners realize that you're a person that has worn many hats. Some of those hats may not necessarily be in your closet anymore, and I'm thinking you're probably shopping for some more. But is there a role in your career that you wish you had experienced along the way? And I'm going to preface that by saying along the way, not in the future, because I feel like, if it was something different than our paths may not have crossed, and I'm happy to be here.
Dana Dowdell:Well, I'm happy to have you. That's a really good question. So I feel very fortunate in my career that I got some really incredible experience working in hospitality. I got some really great training experience. I got union experience in my first job and I always look at life and my skill set as like what's not in my toolbox and I think an area that I don't have experience in and one that I do not anticipate getting experience in is really like municipal HR or like government related HR. I have kind of an understanding that it's very different and we met with we had Mary Calorio on the podcast way, way back when it first started and she did a really nice job shedding some light on how municipal HR can be different. But I wish that I had gotten a little bit of experience in municipal or government HR just to know what it's like, because it is it's different. I can understand that.
Brandon Chance:And then I think in some ways a lot of HR overlaps. So, like with the laws and things like that. We think that a lot of it may be similar to municipal, like with unemployment when you're speaking with Evan not too long ago, but it is, I'm sure, quite different yeah.
Dana Dowdell:I mean, one of the biggest things that I never realized is that when you work in public sector, your information is your public servant, so your information is someone can do a FOIA request and essentially ask for the salaries of every person in the police department, and that information is just, I think, administratively very different from a work place culture. It's very different, and I don't know that I would enjoy it at the end of the day, because I love what we do, but it's an area of my toolbox that I think is not filled.
Brandon Chance:And we'll never get filled. I have a good friend of mine who works for Amtrak, and those roles are completely different.
Dana Dowdell:Yeah, I was just recording some lectures for teaching and the person that I was working with was telling me that his daughter does HR for the MBTA up in Boston. So the T and I'm like God. That has to be fascinating, just like the dynamics of the role and the scheduling. It just has to be such a dynamic opportunity to do HR for MBTA.
Brandon Chance:And I'm sure there has to be some interesting stories behind that as well. Well, on the subject of teaching, what do you nerd out the most about learning, about HR, like what really excites you?
Dana Dowdell:I think there's like the I'm going to give like a professional and an unprofessional answer. The unprofessional answer is I love hearing about employee relations Like what happened, why did it happen? Who said what? I think I remember growing up reading a lot of Us Weekly magazines and stuff and like who's dating Brad Pitt, and I think a little bit is like the HR part in me loves that part of it is learning about the dynamics of an employee relations situation and I love hearing those stories. I love hearing my friends talk about their HR problems.
Dana Dowdell:I love it and I think that, from an overall perspective, what I nerd out about the most is the ability to make an impact. I think that we forget sometimes how much we can influence and impact the people that we interact with, and so I love learning new ways to connect with people. I love learning new ways to get people excited about what they're doing, what motivates them. I think that's the most fun that you can have in HR. And, yeah, you have to do compliance shit and, you know, terminate people every once in a while, but, like the, it's really not that complicated and there's so much to nerd out over. That is so simple.
Brandon Chance:I agree with that and also with that. What they say is with great power comes great responsibility. So I also think losing track or site of the impact that we can have on either an individual or an organization from an HR standpoint can sometimes get lost and sometimes also create some of the more terrifying moments within HR and an organization as well. Like if you do lose sight of it, you need to make sure you're on the right track.
Dana Dowdell:Well, and I think it's a really fine line for HR professionals, because you have to maintain enough of a boundary and enough of a line that you don't fall into a conflict of interest situation or you don't fall into, like a boundary you know, a boundary being crossed or putting yourself in a position that you really shouldn't be in an HR capacity. But in order to know the people, learn what motivates them, like you have to, I think, show a little bit about yourself and a little bit of your own humanity, and so you have to, like constantly be checking in about you know, is this too much? Did I overstep a boundary? What's the potential perception, the potential optics of this? You know circumstance or situation, and am I doing my professional obligation in how I'm behaving, how I'm acting?
Brandon Chance:I think when I'm thinking about HR in general, I think there's a large disconnect between our profession and the way other people view it. So when you just mentioned looking at the human relations portion and kind of nerding out about that and like why did this lead to that, what could have been changed, et cetera, it occurred to me that like millions of people follow that around the world because that is pretty much like sports talk radio. It is, why is this person on the team still and not this person? What happened? What was said? What happened behind the scenes that we don't know about? Who said what? What's been documented, et cetera, et cetera. So I think it's important to try and make those connections outside of the human resource field to say, hey, like we are relatable, we're not this standalone entity with our own rules, language, et cetera. Like we, you know what we do, you just don't know what we do and what we're paying attention to.
Dana Dowdell:Yeah, yeah, it's tricky.
Brandon Chance:That being said, what kind of organization or field do you think is most in need of an HR upgrade right now? Or just like completely doesn't even realize? Like hey, there are services out there. Maybe I should be doing this. Maybe like just completely oblivious might be a better word.
Dana Dowdell:Manufacturing. I don't know that there's an obliviousness to it, but I think that there concept of human resources is so transactional and there's opportunities for it to be transformative, and I think there's some tricky dynamics in that it's. You know, often it might be shiftwork, it might be 24 hours, Oftentimes manufacturing attracts a certain type of professional, but I think manufacturing can really afford some HR influence. I also think nonprofits as well. So I think nonprofits often fall into the bucket of well, that's how we've always done it and that really hinders growth, that really hinders development, that really hinders opportunities. And oftentimes HR especially when you have HR from a strategic standpoint, they can help bring and drive those changes forward.
Brandon Chance:I can understand both of those. My opinion is slightly different, but I'm sure that comes from my blue collar background. Bias Automotive I wouldn't necessarily say automotive individually. I think there's a lot of small blue collar shops out there with employees, say, numbering from about five to 15, that don't realize HR can help, be a competitive advantage for them. They can help them retain talent, they can help them move forward in the future, they can help transition one employee to a different role. There's so many benefits there.
Brandon Chance:And not to mention the amount of time I believe many of those owners, managers, et cetera waste in the office doing the research instead of just picking up a phone or looking to somebody and saying, hey, because they are truly invested in their organizations. They are their organizations, and the amount of time that they're spending in the office doing that research is time that they're not talking with customers, they're not networking, they're not keeping an eye on their employees. They're trying to figure out, okay, how do I make this compliant, and not necessarily having the tools to stay up on top of it. So I think that's where I would lean, but that's not a whole lot different than manufacturing either. It's because, as you said, there's a lot of this is how we've always done it. We're going to continue to do so, and it doesn't have to be that way.
Dana Dowdell:I think there's a misnomer too, that you only need HR when you have problems, and really you need HR before you have problems. And I think that comes from the mindset of HR just being such like a transactional, you know personnel management position, and I think you make a good point in that you know an employee of one, if you, if it's you and another employee, there's a need for HR. What if you have to coach that employee on being late and you're not comfortable doing it? Or you are having performance issues with that employee and then you have to terminate them. They go on to file unemployment you haven't done any of the documentation, then you lose unemployment and then it just becomes this like cycle of you know it. I think it filters your view of people and their true value to your organization and HR can be a day one value add to your organization.
Brandon Chance:I completely agree. Like you're saying, if you're hiring your first employee, I heard somebody I really wish I remember who it was say that a handbook is the first introduction an employee is going to have with your culture. And Now more than ever, culture is your competitive advantage. You can have two body shops mechanics one right next to each other. Average person has no idea what the difference is, but the people working there certainly do. One is going to do better than the other. Do you want the same handbook? Do you want the exact same rules as your neighbor? Do you want the one you downloaded off the internet that you probably haven't even read all of to figure out? Oh, I didn't know. We had a vacation policy, but apparently there is one in here and here we are.
Dana Dowdell:Yeah, and then you're stuck Exactly. I think there's a lot of assumptions that HR can be copy and pasted. I think what makes especially what we do so special and so unique is that your HR function should be directly aligned with your strategy and your company mission and your company values. I'll give you a prime example. So we have a client that's a medical office and we are in the process of doing increases and raises across the board.
Dana Dowdell:So I met with a nurse the other day to let her know of her increase and she started to give some feedback about a competitor, a large hospital system, and what did they do in compensation? And she was saying that they give an hourly incentive if you have your bachelor's in nursing, so your BSN, and I said, ok, that's interesting. And I said valid, absolutely valid piece of feedback. That might not make sense for this practice for two reasons One, we do tuition reimbursement. Two, we have a really fantastic associates in nursing program just down the road. And three, for us it might be more valuable to incentivize this particular certification that's unique to our specialty, and so those types of things like it's easy to say, oh, that organization does this incentive or this benefit or this way to train people or this way to onboard people, but then if you're not thinking about, well, does that actually make sense for what we're trying to accomplish, what we're trying to do, it can often be wasted time and energy.
Brandon Chance:Right, it's like offering a beach day in Alaska.
Dana Dowdell:Exactly.
Brandon Chance:It doesn't translate All right. Looking at it from an extreme, this or that, what would you rank these as yes or no, or comparison as far as? What would you prefer to see in HR? Knowledge or experience?
Dana Dowdell:Experience.
Brandon Chance:Education or ambition.
Dana Dowdell:Ambition.
Brandon Chance:Empathy or indifference.
Dana Dowdell:Empathy.
Brandon Chance:That's interesting because I feel like each one of these has value. And the empathy and indifference one is kind of interesting because being too empathetic, I believe you also run the risk of not necessarily being in control and having the ability to have those difficult conversations and say, OK, well, we have to do something. So yeah, it's tricky.
Dana Dowdell:I totally understand that viewpoint. I think the way that I think empathy is wasted if you don't have a high level of emotional intelligence and a high level of self-reflection. So let's take terminations, for example, like they're not fun, no matter the circumstances. Yes, you can sit there and say, oh, this person fired themselves, sure, whatever, but at the end of the day, someone's losing their job. And I look at those situations and it's like the empathetic thing is understanding that this is a significant impact to someone's life. Or it can be a significant impact to someone's life and you can have empathy for the situation that they're in. The emotional intelligence and the self-reflection come in and saying I still have a job to do and in my job and my capacity, what is my obligation in that?
Brandon Chance:That's a great way to explain it. Yeah, so you're talking about terminations and once again, you're a very busy person doing many different things, as we covered at the beginning. Many different hats, different roles. How do you keep your sanity when dealing with difficult clients? A lot on your plate. So one client wants something, another client wants something else, third client wants something else and they all want it.
Dana Dowdell:Now Well, I have an amazing team, so that helps. I go to therapy. So there's not a lot of resources out there for HR professionals, and so I think you have to take your own initiative and make sure that you're practicing, as self-care is kind of, I think, an overused word sometimes, but what fills your cup as a person not even an HR professional, just a person what fills your cup? What reignites the fire in you? What do you need to do to spend your time? But I go to therapy. I take hot girl mental health walks with my dog. I spend a lot of time with my best friends, my partner. I'm learning different ways to kind of like clear out that stress. I also think so.
Dana Dowdell:I think being an HR professional within an organization is actually a different experience than being an HR professional in a consultant capacity, because and I've done both but I think when you work in an organization, if you're an HR generalist, let's say, or an HR business partner, the way that you are looked at and resourced in that organization is going to be very much driven by the culture and the messaging that comes in from the top Meeting. Are you an actual strategic resource or are you just transactional? Only go to HR when you have a write-up, versus go to HR when you're having this employee issue and they'll help you strategize the best way to do it. In a consultant capacity, I feel like we are automatically looked at as the strategic subject matter experts and as a business. That's how I want us to serve. I don't really want to serve as the transactional HR function. I want to serve as more of a strategic function.
Dana Dowdell:So I think in that way, that helps define how we give feedback, how we respond to things, how we coach people, that type of stuff. It's hard. I mean, there's hard days when it was just me doing this, and I think this is a good piece of advice for people who are HR departments of one is find one or two people who do HR or HR departments of one or work in a coaching, consultant capacity and just like, maybe get virtual coffee every six months or so, because you'll ultimately run into situations where you're like shit, did I handle that? Okay, what would you do in this situation? And having those resources and people to bounce ideas off of it can be really helpful in building up your self-advocacy.
Brandon Chance:I can agree with that. Maybe some more tips for the consultant or the HR department of one. Oftentimes we have to have difficult conversations and I think oftentimes the subject of that conversation has a tendency to want to take over that conversation. What tips do you have on how to maintain control while having a difficult conversation, when either the employer, the employee, whoever else is in the room privy to the conversation is just running rampant?
Dana Dowdell:Is this a self-motivated question, brandon? Perhaps. So I think you need to do some role play in your head. So let's say you're new in HR. I think it's helpful to think about what's the possibilities, how could this conversation go? What happens if this happens? Be prepared for those things.
Dana Dowdell:I also think and we see this a lot with employees where their problem at work is actually like an onion. There's multiple layers to it. They have this problem at work, but then they also have this problem at home. That's influencing their mindset when they come to work. And I think this is part of the empathy part. You have to have an awareness that that might be influencing the way that they're showing up at work or the influencing the situation or the circumstance, but at the end of the day, it's work and you have to.
Dana Dowdell:I think, from an HR professional, you can set the baseline foundation. Here are the non-negotiables before we have this conversation. There won't be any yelling, screaming, name calling. You're going to give each other the opportunity to just speak. You're not going to speak over each other. Those types of non-negotiables before you head into any type of conversation. And then I also think you need to know if someone does raise their voice or start screaming, yelling, walks out of the room. Okay, we're going to maybe let them cool down and then come back. Or maybe your solution is that you don't put up with that and you tell them to put their, gather their things and leave for the day, but you have to plan for it. So, like going into those conversations without having a plan, not advisable.
Brandon Chance:I agree with that how important. I don't know if you've seen Ted Lasse or not.
Dana Dowdell:I've seen a little bit of it.
Brandon Chance:Okay, well, one of the things like a recurring element in the show is being goldfish, and that refers to the memory of a goldfish being extremely short. So it's a show about soccer and if they have a bad game, you want the goldfish memory. You don't want that game to stew and move into the next one.
Brandon Chance:So for instance we've had a client where we spent a lot of time working on something, advising on something, and when it came time to present they go a completely different direction. What's your advice on perhaps maintaining that goldfish brain in an instance like that? So you know there's going to be other projects coming down the road. You know that the potential for a repeat situation is there. Usually we act in an advising capacity, so that is going to be the case, whether or not it happens again way in the future, in the near future. But how do you recommend people have that short memory in HR to say, okay, let's put this one behind us and move on to the next?
Dana Dowdell:Well, I think it's what's the facts of what's happening? Right, because I think something that influences that idea of not being able to forget an incident or something like that, is the perception of that event. And when we're dealing with, let's say, conflict between two people, there's a lot of assumptions, there can be a lot of perceptions of, there can be a lot of interpretation of things that are happening, but our job is to pull out the facts.
Brandon Chance:So yeah, I agree, and I could see how you could also apply that goldfish brain to perhaps our emotional capacity, where when we hear about something sometimes we hear about some really bad stuff in HR that we are, as human beings, being empathetic are going to have an emotional reaction to. But, as you said, it's our job to get to the facts and put that behind us or separate it. So I think that's also a spot where that goldfish brain could come into play, where you don't necessarily want to stew on your emotions at that particular time. You don't necessarily want those preconceived notions to carry through throughout an entire investigation to such a point where you're pointing that investigation the way you think it needs to go as opposed to the way the facts say it should go.
Dana Dowdell:Yeah, and I think you and I have talked about this and I really should write this stuff down because it becomes really useful. But when you're dealing with a situation in HR and it's a situation that requires an investigation, you're looking at the past, you're looking at something that might have happened, you're trying to determine did it actually happen? So it's the who, the what, the where, the when, the why, and those are usually the big things the harassment, the discrimination, that type of stuff. When you're dealing with general conflict between departments, coworkers, that type of thing, I believe that the lens should really be more forward thinking, where it's like you still have to work together. So it's like what let's say? For example, someone comes to you and says I don't like the way that I was spoken to. In that situation, I have a problem with my manager and I'm not happy about it.
Dana Dowdell:In my mind, the solution is okay how do you need your manager to speak to you? What about? Let's, let's identify the. What about the way that they spoke to you? Did you find a fence to? Was it their tone? Was it the shortness? Was it the you know? Was it done in public? And maybe it should have been in private.
Dana Dowdell:So what is the what, what was the kind of the trigger? And then what is the solution to move forward, because we also can't expect everyone to adapt to our triggers, our traumas, all of that stuff. But if we take a forward thinking approach, it becomes much more about okay, my manager said something to me that I didn't like. I didn't like the way that they said it and what really bothered me was the tone Point in time. We can't change that. What we can change is going forward, and that takes a collaborative conversation of saying okay, in the future, if you could maybe pull me aside and we can have a more private conversation rather than in front of everybody. Maybe your tone was just because you were rushed that day or you were really stressed that day. And it is the goal, is a mutual understanding of moving forward versus perseverating on the past that you can't actually change, because no one's going to learn from the past unless there's a conversation about what the future looks like.
Brandon Chance:Exactly.
Dana Dowdell:I feel like I'm having a great right now.
Brandon Chance:Well, hopefully the rest of the listeners are as well.
Dana Dowdell:I hope so. I mean, I think you know it's not perfect every time either. Like you know, I, there are, there will always be, people who can get stuck, stuck on things and and I don't think that's any fault of anyone's, but I think it's it's a a measurement of their ability to self reflect and maybe say, okay, I contributed to the situation this way or, you know, hope for being in a better working relationship. And then I think the second question in those situations is like, if someone can't be reflective, is it the right fit for our team?
Dana Dowdell:You know, like if we we run into this a lot in our consulting capacity, where people come to us with a complaint and it's not a complaint of harassment, it's not a complaint of discrimination or any type of illegal behavior, it's just a generalized complaint, and nine out of 10 times the solution is having like a tough, honest conversation with the person that they're alleging the complaint against. And it's almost like they want HR to be their mouthpiece and that's neat, yeah, like that's an ineffective use of our time. And I also don't think that that's the solution. Because if I, like Brandon, let's say you and I are, you know, let's say you and I are coworkers and and I you say something to me and it makes me really mad. So I go to HR and I say Brandon, you know, called me an asshole and I really, it really bothered me. And HR goes to you and says hey, brandon, we got this allegation that you called so and so an asshole. Is that true?
Brandon Chance:It's well exactly, I don't recall.
Dana Dowdell:Right. So like there's opportunities, like we have to be okay sitting in a little bit of discomfort to get on the other side of it and have a more collaborative working arrangement, and then it becomes okay. Brandon, when you said this to me, this is how it made me feel when you called me an asshole. It made me feel like you didn't respect me and it didn't respect my authority or my opinion or whatever it may be, and it just helps people have a better understanding of each other, and so I think a lot of times, people come to us because they just want us to be the mouthpiece and like check the box and fix it, when in reality, they have to be part of the solution.
Brandon Chance:It has to be a conversation. That has to be a two way street and there needs to be buy in on both sides.
Dana Dowdell:And that in itself is hard for HR to say Okay, this is a conversation that I don't want to involve the employee in and maybe I just involve. We've had that happen before where it's it was not something, where it involved collaboration, a collaborative conversation. It became a conversation between me and the manager where I was telling them here's what your employees are saying and I want to make you aware of it.
Brandon Chance:And I think sometimes that's all that's necessary, because I believe a lot of times. Well, in general, ignorance is bliss. You can't fix a problem you don't know exists. And if you continue to handle yourself in a certain way, believing that that behavior is okay because you've never been told otherwise, what are you going to continue to do that same behavior? Sometimes it's just the knowledge of what's going on, like you can't do this.
Dana Dowdell:I've had people say I have one particular client where I've people. People have said to other managers, leader and their leaders in the organization that they're not comfortable coming to me and the self reflective part of me is like what is happening? What am I doing? That causes that perception Like I want that feedback. I want that feedback to know what am I doing? That that needs to be adjusted or approved upon Because, again, I have a job to do.
Brandon Chance:And then it's on top of that, it's the knowledge, because the knowledge is power, exactly, but it's. Is the problem with you, or is the problem with preconceived notions about HR in general, or is the problem about the previous person who was performing the HR duties in a trust issue in the role, or something like that? So, yeah, there can be many different things, but unless you know, you can't address the problem.
Dana Dowdell:Yeah, and so we just had a situation the other day with a client where an employee wasn't disclosing something because they were concerned about confidentiality, and that came up not directly to me, but it came up to somebody else, and so we had a conversation with the employee and I shared. I said I want you to know that, in my capacity, what you tell me is not for me to tell anyone else, and if you find that the information you are disclosing exclusively to me is being disclosed outwardly, you need to take that complaint directly to the top, because I shouldn't be doing that. That's like the the. Everything in HR is about ethics and having a really strong ethical baseline, and I call it a tickler, like you know. Does this feel right? Does this feel okay? Is this something that that I need to really think about?
Brandon Chance:I agree, I know we're we're getting close to the end here, so I'd like to change the subject a little bit to something a little bit more light. Sure, hr and pop culture. I know in my experience, thanks to working on cars, my past life I had a life before where I would watch movies, things like that, and view them in a certain way, and then suddenly it's wait, this car isn't supposed to shift like 18 times or things like that. Or like getting off a motorcycle and everybody's hair is perfect after they take off their helmet. So I'm wondering if you have some kind of pop cultural experience where there's like a before and after, where you're looking at something and then, with your HR knowledge, you're just like, oh, come on, that is absolutely foolish, that would never happen. This is so different for me now. Or are you watching movies? If you go to the theater and looking for certain things, like waiting for this thing to happen, that always does and be like, oh, I knew it was going to be there, I just did it.
Dana Dowdell:No, but I do love when like show, so like the office is a great one, right when Toby is the HR person and there's some storylines throughout all of their seasons that are HR. And you know, I don't think it necessarily gives the best perception or the best understanding of what HR does as a whole, but I also don't. I mean, I don't think HR is really like. I think HR is really interesting, but I don't think it's film worthy.
Brandon Chance:I can agree with that.
Dana Dowdell:You know, but I do. I love when shows like sprinkle in some HR funnies, so like I'm a big fan of what we do in what they, what we do in the shadows and in episode one or two they talk about a day vampire who basically is like that soul sucking person within an organization that just like the minute they walk by our cubicle you're like, oh my God, and I love those. You know, those that funny part of HR. But I can't say there's anything pop culture related that really, really stands out, because I also think that there's a lot of opinions about HR and its value and its impact and I don't know that people would pay $11 to watch a movie about HR's impact.
Brandon Chance:I think you're probably right and I don't think, taylor. Swift has got that on the next album, the.
Dana Dowdell:HR track. Yeah, I would, but you know there's a great. You know, I think there's some documentaries that are really interesting, but they also do fall more into like the labor relations side of things. It's like I make my students watch the factory, which is available on Netflix, and it's about the cultural differences of work between the US and some Asian countries, and that stuff is interesting to me as well. But I don't think people generally find I think they find HR stuff interesting in the same way. They find, you know, the Johnny Depp and Amber Heard trial interesting and that it's like juicy tea, you know.
Brandon Chance:Well, that circles back to our previous conversation about. This is why people pay attention to sports radio. This is why the human relations portion of it is just fascinating. Yeah, it's nobody is making a movie about. Okay, you're sitting down for the benefits meeting. Hey, yeah enrollment.
Dana Dowdell:Yeah, exactly, exactly so well, brandon. These were some fantastic questions. Thank you so much for putting me in the hot seat and for being on Quirky HR again.
Brandon Chance:Pleasure to be here again.
Dana Dowdell:And thank you so much for tuning in and giving us a listen. We are going to be doing a bit of stuff coming up asking for feedback from you in terms of what you want to hear, what you want to see on the podcast guests that you think would make a good fit. So stay tuned for that and we'll catch you on the next episode of Quirky HR.