Quirky HR
Quirky HR
Ep 63 | Navigating Work Authorization for International Hires and Why It's Worth It With Monique Kornfeld
Take a deep breath as Monique Kornfeld and your host Dana Dowdell plunge into the world of visas, breaking down the H1B professional visa, the L1 intra-company transfer, the E2 investor and trader visas, and more. Monique guides us through the labyrinth of work authorization statuses and sheds light on the common misconceptions that surround them. We also touch on the impact of remote work on immigration law, why it's pivotal to get an expert review on your immigration paperwork, and why it's all worth it at the end of the day.
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Monique Kornfeld , ESQ , Immigration Attorney
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Dana Dowdell - Boss Consulting - @bossconsultinghr - @hrfanatic
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Dana Dowdell:Hello and welcome back to another episode of Quirky HR. I'm very excited about the conversation today because it's a topic that we have not covered on the podcast, and I'm a constant learner and always want to learn about things that I do not know, and this is something that is like a living Rubik's Cube. I am joined by Monique Kornfeld. She is an immigration attorney and she and I are going to talk all things employment, immigration. So, monique, welcome to Quirky HR, good morning.
Monique Kornfeld:Jane, and thank you for having me. Thank you for being here.
Dana Dowdell:So Monique's an attorney and, before we jump into anything, there is a disclaimer that you can find in the show notes about this not being legal advice. Obviously, hr related matters are complicated and if you find yourself in a sticky situation, you would want to make sure you reach out and retain an attorney, and if you're focusing on an immigration law issue, monique is a great option. So make sure you check out this, that disclaimer in the show notes. All right, monique, so tell us how you decided that immigration law was where you wanted to spend your time and energy.
Monique Kornfeld:Sure, so when I graduated from law school I had so many options, but I've always been so interested in the foreign and international affairs, in foreign cultures. My mother was born in Egypt, I studied in England, I worked in Israel and I've just always loved the immigrant community, love foreign food love foreign culture and that's why I decided to go into immigration law.
Dana Dowdell:And I think most HR professionals in their careers. In the scope of what you do, they don't deal with immigration. They're simply doing I-9s and just trying to stay up to date on the new forms and virtual ID reviews. So can you talk a little bit about specifically what an immigration attorney gets involved in with employers?
Monique Kornfeld:Sure, so an employer has a candidate who's a foreign national, they first set to determine if the person is authorized to work in the US, which is the basis of the I-9. And the only legal question you're allowed to ask is are you authorized to work? And you should say are you authorized to work permanently in the US? Because if you just say are you authorized to work in the US, you may not realize that you have an F1 student that only has one year left and you will have to sponsor them if you want Then to continue with you. So that's where the immigration attorney comes in, where you come across a foreign candidate.
Dana Dowdell:And obviously with the labor market, I feel like it's calming down a little bit, but I've had hospitality clients that were even before a pandemic. Talking about international employees J1s, h2bs which is my experience, H1Bs Can you talk a little bit about kind of broadly the different ways that an employer might seek an international candidate and when that can be valuable for an organization?
Monique Kornfeld:Well, so I represent I do mostly employment-based immigration, and people come to me when they can't find US workers or they just really love the candidate, even if they're not having a hard time. But usually people come to me because there is a shortage. There's a shortage of US workers, especially in the STEM field. So they will come across them as soon as they start advertising or recruiting, because those are the only people who are applying to the ads. So sometimes, when they reach out to schools, most of the foreign students in the STEM fields are foreign students. So this is where they're coming across. I don't think they're seeking out foreign workers. They're just coming across them because those are the people who are applying to the jobs and have the skills for those jobs.
Dana Dowdell:It's really interesting. We work with a brewery and I posted a brewer job posting and I had someone from South Africa apply and they had gone to school for fermentation and are working in a brewery in South Africa and, I think, in an HR capacity. I would have never expected I think sometimes my worldview is so closed, sometimes unfortunately that these candidates are available and exist and that there's a possibility to attract international candidates.
Monique Kornfeld:Right. I think a lot of people don't realize that they have so many options in some ways but so few options in other ways that, yes, you have the whole world, you don't have to just rely on US workers. Right, and it is, I guess, a little bit ominous to some people to think, wow, I mean, how do I deal with this foreign worker? It's sometimes you have no choice. So I think it is important for employers to keep an open mind to hiring foreign workers.
Monique Kornfeld:The challenge with hiring foreign workers is that there's a very limited number of visas that allow them to start working immediately well, immediately, but in the near future these non-immigrant visas.
Monique Kornfeld:So if you go from A to Z, we start with A, we're up to B for non-immigrant visas, and these allow people to be in the US to work, study, live, do different things, and there are very few working visas, and so if you do find a great candidate, it can be challenging to bring them here. So you have the H1B professional visa, which is only for, again, jobs that require at least a bachelor's degree in a related field, otherwise known as professions, and the person has that related bachelor's degree, either from the US or abroad, or they can have a higher degree. You have the L1 intra-company transferies, where someone was a specialized knowledge worker or a manager and they're coming to the US to work for an affiliated company. You have, for certain countries, e2 investors, e2 traders, o1, extraordinary ability workers, tn professionals from XPF. You have all these workers very limited, so if you do find that candidate, you might not be able to get them here because there's so few types of visas that allow them to work. H2bs yes, temporary workers as well.
Dana Dowdell:And I think that it sounds like that's an important kind of takeaway for HR professionals too is that just because someone has a visa to be here in the United States, like the F1, doesn't necessarily mean that they have work authorization.
Monique Kornfeld:Exactly right. So when you find someone and the first thing you should do, by the way, if you come across a foreign worker again is ask are you authorized to work I'd say, permanently in the US, and if they say no, I have current authorization well then, of course, for the I9, you have to give them the option to produce the documents and you see what status they're in. Extremely important because they may have very little time left in their status and it might not be worthwhile to invest in them. For example, an F1 student will normally have a year of optional practical training after they graduate. Then, if the STEM field, they'll have two more years.
Monique Kornfeld:Some of them can work also while they're studying, but that's limited. And then usually they transition to an H1B. But that's a lottery and last year, because so many people were gaming the system mainly, only 15% won the lottery. So when you come across a candidate and you're doing the I9 and you're asking all these questions, it's very important to determine their status, how much time they have left, if they've able to change or convert their status to keep them here and eventually do a green card?
Dana Dowdell:Yeah, I know that's. We ran into that when I was working in luxury hospitality with H2B, because you're only authorized to work for your sponsoring employer, correct?
Monique Kornfeld:That's right. It's not universal work authorization, yeah.
Monique Kornfeld:Versus the F1 student. When they graduate, they get some optional practical training and so long as they're working in their field, they can work for any employer pursuant to the employment authorization document, versus an H1B, which is primarily what I do, which is for professional workers. It's employer specific. Now you can change employers with the H1B. The hardest part is transitioning to the H1B because when you're an F1 student and now you want an H1B to be able to continue to work here, it's a lottery and there are only 65,000 numbers. If you have a bachelor's degree, 20,000. If you have a master's degree and again it's an online lottery and if you don't win, sometimes you have enough time in your optional practical training that you try the next year. But if you run out of time, sometimes you might not have any options or some people might go straight for the green card. But it's to get back to your original point. Just because someone's authorization, it doesn't mean it's universal. It could be employer specific.
Dana Dowdell:And I have found in my experience and I would love your insight on this that employers, I think, often think that it's an easy process. You know like oh, that's a great candidate and we need them. That would be easy for them to get work authorization. And I have found, especially when working specifically on H1B processing and PERM processing, that you really have to be able to prove that you cannot find a viable candidate here in the United States.
Monique Kornfeld:Well, and that's a common misconception and people get very confused For the H1B temporary worker petition or visa status, where you get initially up to three years, another three years then you can get indefinite H1B status. If you start the green card process early enough, you don't have to show that you've done recruitment and there are no qualifying with workers. Only if you're an H1B dependent worker where you have a high number of H1Bs in your workforce, do you have to show you've done some good faith recruitment. But even then you don't have to do it like the green card case. So no, to get an H1B if you've never been subject to the cap, you have to. First of all, the hardest part is the lottery. You have to win a number and then, if you win a number, then you have to get approved, right. But no, you don't have to show that you can't find any candidates. You just have to show this a professional position. You're going to pay them the required wage. The person has that bachelor's degree or foreign equivalent and it's in a related field and it will get approved.
Monique Kornfeld:Now for the per green card case the labor certification then you have to run recruitment, because they're trying to protect US workers, they're giving them first dibs. So you have to determine the minimum requirements, you have to run recruitment, make sure you're not underpaying them and there, if any minimally qualified US workers respond, you cannot proceed with the case. You could try re-recruiting or you may have to stop, but it's minimally qualified US worker and H1B and F1 is not a US worker. A US worker is someone who has is a green card holder, maybe an assailee US citizen, but oftentimes when I'm running PERM recruitment, it's not real world. By the way, we don't get a lot of responses and most of the responses, especially to the STEM field, are H1Bs and F1 students, so they don't have to be considered at all. And you're not violating anything by saying thank you but no thank you, because you're not a US worker, you don't have to consider you.
Dana Dowdell:Ooh, that's interesting. Yeah, I always thought it was across the board. You had to prove, even with the J1s H2Bs, like that. You have to show okay and no for none of them for the L1s, for the E2s, none of them.
Monique Kornfeld:Do you have to show that it's only with the perm green card case, or with each one be dependent employers, but then that standard is lower.
Dana Dowdell:Is that, because it's a temporary work, authorization?
Monique Kornfeld:Probably. Who knows the motivations behind these people who like terrible legislation. The rules are so hard because they keep making more rules to try to clarify what the rule meant, and then it still doesn't answer all the questions. And then they have a policy guideline and then everyone has to say, well, is it binding, that policy guideline? The hardest part about practicing immigration law is that it's constantly changing and there's never really a hard answer.
Monique Kornfeld:Sometimes you have to go on your listserv and say, hey, how did you guys deal with this? So what are the consulates doing? It can be very arbitrary. They have rules. For example, you'll say, okay, you can file if you're an extraordinary ability alien for an O1. How do you define extraordinary ability? It's an art, it's not a science. They look at 10 criteria. Do you have sustained national international claim at the top of your field? Well, basically, according to Nobel Prize. And how do you define that? Right, it's who's had their coffee that morning? Whatever USCOS officer, maybe they like that person. Right, I did one for a bodybuilder. Maybe someone really loved bodybuilders, right?
Dana Dowdell:Interesting. What are the agencies, the US agencies that are involved in immigration?
Monique Kornfeld:So USCIS is the primary one US Citizenship and Immigration Services. That's where the person's in the US or even abroad. You have the US employer has to file a petition to get approved. Then you have the Department of Labor which runs the PERM Labor certification. It's kind of like filing your taxes online. You conduct to the recruitment, you file the PERM application online. They take it on your word that you've run the recruitment and they can either certify the case or they can audit it to say, show us the tear sheets, show us who's done this. That's Department of Labor. The Department of Labor also certifies labor condition application. Then they don't analyze each one be petition.
Monique Kornfeld:Then you have the Department of State. That's when you go to the US consulates to get your visa. You're dealing with the Department of State. So those are the three primary agencies. Then you have other agencies that you can appeal to if your case is denied. So if USCIS denies your case, you can go to the administrative appeals office. And then another part which I don't do anymore is deportation or removal and that's the immigration courts, which is separate from USCIS Department of Labor. Their Department of Justice, USCIS is Department of Homeland.
Dana Dowdell:Security. Oh my God, it's like a family affair. It's crazy.
Monique Kornfeld:You have to deal. So let's say I'm doing any to and be petition for someone who's outside the US. You have to deal with three different agencies. You have to file the USCIS. You also have to get a labor condition application from the Department of Labor and then they have to go to the US consulate to get the visa.
Dana Dowdell:So one thing we talk a lot about on this podcast is making the business case for HR decisions, and a lot of my guests often comment that one thing that would help HR stand out is to really look at the business impact of those decisions. And I think actually immigration is a really interesting frame to look at that through, because you have prevailing wage which, if you're having internal wage, equity issues like that, can impact it right. Remote work is, I'm sure, hugely impacting immigration. Can you share a little bit about what you see in the trickle down effect of some immigration activities?
Monique Kornfeld:I wouldn't call it a trickle down effect as much as how you're right, how these wages and remote work affect these foreign workers. Because, remember, for example, h1b is employer and location specific. Because you have to get a well, you have to determine what the prevailing or required wage is, because you can't underpay workers. Remember, they're trying to protect you as workers. So if you want an H1B, you have to make sure you're paying the higher of the prevailing or actual wage that you pay to others in your field. Can't underpay them. That's what the labor condition application is for. So therefore it does affect. So if you have a policy at the company and wages, it can affect the beneficiary, the column, the Canthapoor National, because if the company doesn't want to raise the wage, then they can't sponsor the person because there's a required wage. So if the, let's say, the required wage is 50,000 and every one of the companies being paid 40,000 and they all have the same skills in order, you can try to for a private survey, but if you're unwilling to raise it to 50, you can't sponsor that H1B. So that's one way that the real world is affecting immigration.
Monique Kornfeld:Remote work is another perfect example. If you file an H1B for Boston. Another person wants to work remotely in New Hampshire because they're not the same prevailing wage area, you have to file an amended petition for New Hampshire to allow them to work. So what I do when I file as I anticipate that and we always say include all work sites where you think someone will be located in the future, so you don't have to file an amended petition. So include that person might work remotely here. They're trying to be, as you know, pressured as possible as to where they'll be working and but if you're just going, let's say you put Boston down and now the person wants to work remotely in Cambridge, you don't have to do an amended petition because the prevailing wage would be the same for both areas. You just have to repost.
Monique Kornfeld:So there is a little bit of flexibility in immigration law regarding worksites and remote work and also, like for the L1 or for the E2, some others, they're not worksite specific. H1bs are. They're this whole separate animal very copious regulations, very intricate, and what I would say to HR people H1Bs are a great way to bring, to bring in professionals into your right. You need them, you have no choice. But you, there are so many rules and regulations you really have to take care. Make sure you're binding by them.
Dana Dowdell:Yeah, there's so many layers to it. So you and I were talking offline about that. I equate immigration work like doing taxes, where someone will say, oh, it's just this form, you know an F121 form. And it's like you go in, you look at it thinking that you, you know, have basic common knowledge and you can figure it out. And then you get into it and you're like Holy shit, no.
Monique Kornfeld:Well, right, there are two ways to look at that. So, first off, immigration is not forms, and I've had people contact me.
Monique Kornfeld:Can you just review my forms Like no, not a paralegal. How do you know you're even eligible to file? How do you know that you'll get travel or work authorization? How do you know that you won't lend yourself in removal proceedings, right? So it's not just forms.
Monique Kornfeld:And secondly, you have to be so careful because some of the questions seem very common sense, like we'll say, do the job requirements succeed the standard for the industry, and you'll think, oh no, my job requirements don't exceed it. I always need a master's in 10. Hey, there's a standard vocational preparation code, right? You can't. So if you have a software developer and you ask for master's in 10, that exceeds it far and large, all right. So you have to understand that this is not common sense. This is not real world. Every potential question is a pitball can land you with a denial. So it's important to have an expert do this.
Monique Kornfeld:I even have had worked with some HR people who probably were almost like high end paralegals. They knew their H1Bs in and out, right. Still, I would say it's best to have an immigration attorney, because you have to think of the greater context. How does the H1B affect their green card case? How long can you get it? Do you know about the background of this person? And, for example, I just had a case. I was doing a TN extension. It was from Mexico to work here as a professional. It ends up that he has a whole slew of crimes and immigration just sent me a notice that's like 20 pages long. Terrible with crimes. Crimes galore, but they're only charges. They can't deny him.
Monique Kornfeld:There's this presumption of innocence in this country, if I remember correctly, they can't deny him a case because he's charged with something right, but still now I have to go back and work with him on his criminal record and think about how that would affect a potential green card case and I have to help him decide how. Should he plead to a lesser charge? Should he try to go to trial? Isn't that risky if you're not acquitted? So it's very important to realize that these are not just forms or such as one isolated case, that this person still has a whole immigration background and oftentimes they might not tell the attorney I mean tell the employer because they feel like I only have to tell them what's on this H1B questionnaire. But that's what you need the attorney for to look at the overall immigration case.
Dana Dowdell:Oh God. So it truly is just know what you don't know.
Monique Kornfeld:Exactly, I don't like that. Yes, with taxes, I don't do my own taxes.
Dana Dowdell:Awesome. I tried this year. I was like I'm an S corp, now I'm going to do my own taxes the boss lady. And then I finally got into it and I was like absolutely not, I need an expert to do it. So yeah, I also think that HR is constantly changing right. The field itself, immigration aside, you know, independent contractor, all this other stuff that is changing and evolving and being addressed, and it's like staying on top of that and the ever-changing stuff in immigration. I don't have enough coffee in the world to do that.
Monique Kornfeld:We're in similar fields and I find often that my HR clients I usually have very close relationships with people that I work with because I've worked with them over the years. They give me repeat business and I get to know them very well and they're doing so much. And you're right, the field is constantly changing. When you have, like you know, virtual I-9s, when you have new rules about how you define an independent contractor, and then I come in and I'm telling them we'll do it this way, and then a year later, no, we have to do that way. But, monique, you told me we do it this way. I said, I know, but now we have to do it that way. Right, we're doing this. This immigration has decided.
Monique Kornfeld:So it's very similar and I also think that it's really important for companies to attribute more importance to their HR staff, help them out more Don't think that they're just like this catch-all department of the company and stick them with everything, because it's really important. If you miss a posting, if you miss a deadline, you might cause the person to lose their status and then they have to go home. So this is really important. Immigration status is very, very important. Oftentimes companies will make all these business, deals, mergers, acquisitions, and they don't think, oh wait, a second, that company that we just acquired, they have a bunch of foreign nationals, are we going to be able to maintain their visas? Did we vet that whole process? So yeah, we're very similar.
Dana Dowdell:It's a constant desire of HR to be involved in conversations and decision-making before the decision actually gets made, exactly exactly. It's like a constant uphill battle, and I think to that point too. It's HR actually is a skill, and finding someone who has the knowledge wherewithal to say, hey, I don't know this, but I know it's something that we need to look at and involve an expert in, and let's bring in Monique.
Monique Kornfeld:And it's probably just like employment law right and sure. HR people know certain things they can do in terms of protecting themselves against when you have discrimination or harassment suits, and sometimes you have to know when to just call your employment lawyer.
Dana Dowdell:Yeah, know what you don't know. Yes, I want to talk about costs. I don't want to talk about the. Every attorney charges their own fees, but there are significant costs related to applications forms, recruiting when it's a perm application, and it varies depending on the work authorization that you are seeking for someone. Can you talk a little bit about employer discretion in a way, Like is there a way for an employer to make this investment and either recoup the fees from the candidate or is it a total loss and then on the backend too, let's say the candidate doesn't work out Like I think it's what H2Bs you have to pay for them to fly home, kind of these other costs that are associated with immigration filing.
Monique Kornfeld:Right, this is a key point. There are certain types of immigration cases that the employee cannot pay for. They cannot reimburse the employer for later. You have to think of it as a business cost and you get to write off that business cost. I don't think of it as a loss. So the two cases where the employee is not allowed to contribute is the H1B process. Basically, you're not allowed.
Monique Kornfeld:The only time I'm sorry if this is gonna be a complicated formula the only time the employee is allowed to pay the attorney's fees for an H1B petition is where their fee exceeds the required fee by the amount of the attorney's fees. So, for example, let's say you only have and it would only happen if you only have one worker, because if you have the actual workers the formula doesn't work. Let's say you hire one person and the prevailing wage is 50. You wanna pay them 50 and now you want them to pay the attorney. You're not once sent over 50. You can't pay the attorney. Now, if the attorney's fees are $4,000, that person would have to be making 4,000 over the required wage. They'd have to be making 54. But the thing is that rule doesn't work with actual workers because then you'd have to pay them more than what the other actual workers are getting paid.
Dana Dowdell:And you never do that because that's the actual wage.
Monique Kornfeld:So the employee does not pay the attorneys fees for H1B petitions and then they're not allowed to pay. There's something called the ACWIA fee. It's either $1,500 if you have more than 25 workers or $750 if you have fewer. Employer must pay that. That's basically that goes away with the second extension. There's a fraud fee of $500. The employer has to pay for that. There's a final fee of $460. I wouldn't say it says anywhere in the ranks for sure that the employee is not allowed to pay, but I would not have the employee pay. I think if you ask five attorneys you'll get five different answers.
Monique Kornfeld:So I say just, it's all about the employer paying. Now, the elite fee that the employee could pay is something called the premium processing fee and it's only if it's really they want it. It's $2,500 extra and that's to expedite your case. So instead of it taking a few months, it might take well, USCIS has had 15 calendar days to make a decision or request additional evidence, and once you reply, if there's additional evidence, they have 15 calendar days to make a decision. So the only fee employees can pay is that.
Monique Kornfeld:Now the green card case, the PERM, labor certification, which is the first stage of a three part stage. Normally for a green card or legal permanent residency for employment based people, the employee is not allowed to pay for the PERM stage at all. Period. Attorney's fees, recruitment fees nada, nothing, kent, and the employer can't request reimbursement later. Now the second stage of the I-140, the third stage of the I-45, the employer, employee, anyone can pay those. The attorney's fees, the filing fees, mix it up. Have a consistent policy at the company, because you don't want to have to cover I don't know Yan and his family, but not Rayjiwon, , right, that's have a consistent policy. Also, have a flexible policy that says that in terms, when you start the green card case, that you'll say, ok, we will only start it six months after the person has been working here. But we understand that maybe we have to file sooner to protect someone's status so we can start the card. But just have consistent policies.
Monique Kornfeld:So yeah so in the final note regarding fees oftentimes, yes, the employer has the right to say that the employee must contribute to the second and third stages of the green card case. But good luck getting that person in the door. So just go down the street and find another employer, say I'll pay your fees. So it's kind of leverage that they have over the employer when negotiating. In terms of other, like you know, L1s, E2s, 01s, there's no prohibition on attorney's fees there, but they're not used as much right.
Dana Dowdell:Yeah, it's so damn complicated.
Monique Kornfeld:I said. That being said, I've spoken to my contract lawyer colleagues. It is feasible for an employer to see compensatory or punitive damages if I don't know if there's some damage to them, to the business, but good luck collecting on it, right.
Dana Dowdell:Yeah, like what's your potential. What's your potential gain versus the attorney to?
Monique Kornfeld:You have to pay the attorney, you have to find them, and then they don't have any money anyway. So I mean, yes, you can have, I guess, and you speak to an employment attorney, but they cannot be a pretext for reimbursing the employer if the person leaves after you've gotten an HLV for them.
Dana Dowdell:Oh, my goodness, I want to ask about US-based employers and I don't know if this is in your area of expertise, so if it's not, we don't have to touch this question but US-based employers who have an employee that wants to go work remotely in Spain for six months.
Monique Kornfeld:Yeah, I don't. All I can say is and this is really an important point too US immigration law covers in the US. When someone's in the US they want to go to Spain, they just make sure you comply with Spanish law right Now, that being said, of course, if you're going to do something a type of case where the person's foreign experience is relevant well, you want to make sure that maybe they're doing it right. So, for an L1 intra-company transferee, where they have to show they've worked one year abroad full-time for an affiliated company and are coming to the US to work, you want to make sure that they're on the proper payroll for that foreign company.
Dana Dowdell:But generally speaking, us immigration law touches the US, so someone were to find themselves in that situation. Where they had it, we have a client that has an employee that's going to live in Spain for two years, I think and so it would be recommended to review Spanish visa requirements. Work authorization requirements.
Monique Kornfeld:That's right, and I have a great list serve with attorneys all over the world and they know Spanish immigration attorneys, french immigration attorneys. I would think it's almost. I wonder if it's easier. In some ways I know Canada. I mean America has to get it's act together.
Dana Dowdell:Canada's wooing H-1Bs. First of all, we should not have an H-1B cap or lottery.
Monique Kornfeld:We should just have H-1Bs if you can show it's a professional position. But now what Canada is saying is if there are any people who are eligible for an H-1B here and didn't get it, we'll give you a visa and we'll do it two weeks because they really want these professional workers.
Dana Dowdell:Well, I think the situation I have with the client I think Spain has they have like a digital nomad visa where it's like a two-year, like yeah, they're getting creative. Or Portugal, I think, had another one. They're getting very creative.
Monique Kornfeld:Yeah Well, hopefully this idea that immigrants are somehow harming the US workforce. It couldn't be more wrong. And there's an article in the New York Times I really encourage everyone to read I don't know if it was a few days ago about migrants in New York City and how it's immigrants who've propped up New York City because people are leaving New York City. Immigrants build the economy. We couldn't live without them. We have this terrible labor shortage and, even forgetting the labor shortage, they actually overall the increased wages. They grow businesses. They allow businesses to continue to be operating. I remember one, so it seems to involve Patrick Gears. It goes on Massachusetts. He was saying oh yes, we have this program. We want to really encourage businesses here with a lot of STEM workers. I said that's great to all, but how are you going to get them visas? Because if we have an H1B cap and these employers can't find STEM workers to run their businesses, they're not growing.
Dana Dowdell:Yeah, when I worked in the lecture hospitality, the hotel could not operate in the height of the summer, yeah, without RJ1 and H2Bs and they were fantastic, fantastic. My experience in HR with an H2B employee was it shaped the way that I view how employees look at work, because they were looking at work as a lifeline, meaning they were working to then send money home and it was not the same viewpoint as another employee and it totally changed the way I thought about work for people. But I want to ask about the hospitality of immigration, because I'm under the mindset that when you're dealing with an international employee, you're not just dealing with the employee, you're dealing with their family, they're dealing with the school living. You know where are they living, where are they moving to? Do you see that in your practice at all, that there's really a need to support the employee as an entire family unit versus just the employee?
Monique Kornfeld:And I have to say honestly no, because when I'm representing an employer contacts me and asks me to get an H1B or a green card, I'm generally not involved with the beneficiary, the foreign worker, except in terms of maintaining his status and his family's status To make sure that they always have status. But you make a good point and companies should try to make it as comfortable, hospitable as possible for people to bring their families here, because if their families don't like it, they're going home. I can tell you how many times I've heard that someone's spouse decided they didn't like the US. No, they're going back right, they missed, they didn't like the culture, whatever.
Monique Kornfeld:Sometimes it's out of our control and but then the I think the counterpoint to that is that oftentimes people are so worried because they're losing their status, but their kids have grown up here and they've gone to school here and it's very sad and so it's very disruptive if they lose their status and they have to bring their family back home. So I think you're very right that to in order to have a successful business, not only do you need US, you need foreign workers these days if you're a professional company, but you also want to keep them because of the labor shortage, so that's a very good point. Keep them happy.
Dana Dowdell:Oh, always.
Monique Kornfeld:Isn't that just so common sense? Keep your employees happy, treat them well.
Dana Dowdell:If only right, If only people could share that mindset.
Monique Kornfeld:Don't work them like dogs. I mean, come on, they have a life, don't contact them on weekends, unless it's absolutely dire.
Dana Dowdell:Oh, my goodness, we have so much work to do, so much work to do, monique. This has been fantastic. Where can listeners connect with you?
Monique Kornfeld:So they can go to my website. Just they could Google Monique Kornfeld it's with a K and no I Kornfeld or they can find me on LinkedIn, and I'm very responsive, loved to hear from anyone, any questions, and I'm also a great source of referrals. So if you need a Spanish immigration attorney, please feel free to contact me.
Dana Dowdell:Fantastic, and of course we'll make sure those links are in the show notes. I'll also try to find that New York Times article that you referenced, because I think that would be a good resource.
Monique Kornfeld:I am going to send it to you. The problem is, I think you have to be a paid subscriber to the New York Times. I wish they wouldn't do it, because there's so many articles out there. Right, let's say that how, how important immigration is to our economy.
Dana Dowdell:Yeah, oh, my goodness. Well again, monique. Thank you so much for being on Quickie HR.
Monique Kornfeld:Thank you so much for having me.